-or-
What's the best oil to use a rust inhibitor, while still providing decent lubrication?
Oil, Choices, Rust and a FAQ
I've been using Breakfree for a while now to clean and protect my guns. My #1 goal is to prevent rust. My #2 goal is to prevent rust; with an additional goal to lubricate the action, etc.
After a trip to my gunsmith, I got several stories of Breakfree gumming up actions, if the gun wasn't used for a while --- particularly handguns. I followed this up with reading past Gun Tests reviews of Rust Protectors, Oils and so forth and, to my horror, they rated Breakfree as only Poor to Good. Several steps away from their Excellent rating.
Now, I don't want to clog up the list with a bunch of responses and counter responses. Or the inevitable shouts of "This isn't on topic !!!". SO... If you want to email me any thoughts on your oil/rust preventative selection, I will create a FAQ file and put it out on http://www.fo.com/cr-stuff.htm. We can later point others there, when the question undoubtfully arises again.
I'm thinking of switching to either FP-10 (which isn't a great rust preventative but it is a good lubricant) or Casey-Birch Sheath --- which seems to be a GOOD rust preventative. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to coat these things in cosmoline or anything like that; I still want to be able to shoot them occasionally. So I think that this precludes the carnuba wax backers --- since (I THINK) the wax kinda melts when you shoot the gun.
I just don't want the dog gone things to rust ...
Thanks,
And I'll post the FAQ info if I get enough for a reasonable document.
Bill Shadish
Three points:
1. Gun Tests sucks. They couldn't test their way out of a brown paper bag. A *wet* brown paper bag. "Scientific method? Control's? Whadda those?" They may not take advertising, but that doesn't make them competent, professional, or unbiased.
2. Breakfree is excellent. I live in not-so-sunny Orygun, and my guns get moist just about every time I use them outdoors (regularly, IOW). Been here 13 years with a big pile-o-guns, and nary a spot of rust.
3. Gumming is polymerization - CLP doesn't polymerize at room temperature (unlike WD-40). In my 20 years of using CLP I've never seen it gum, at all.
Relax, stick with CLP and Tetragun grease, and you'll have no problems.
Parkerizing *loves* CLP - slurps it up.
Regards,
Kirk, khays@sequent.com
I use a couple of proprietary substances I "discovered" in the search for a better lubricant/rust preventative that I didn't have to replace on a regular basis (for both handguns that I carry on a regular basis and guns (shotguns/handguns) that I keep "ready" aka nearby and nearly loaded. Two I can suggest: Armscote and Borecote. Both are teflon-based. One is a lubricant/preservative, the other is a long term preservative. Both are made by a company in FL. The company has a website at: www.borecote.com
Armscote is a "long-term" preservative. It is designed to protect finishes-- not to lubricate. Basically, you clean and de-grease/oil the gun, dissassemble, and spray the stuff on. Wait 10 minutes, buff it to remove the excess teflon. Re-spray, wait, buff again. Then replace any wood, grips, etc. and reassemble. I don't know how "long" it lasts--I don't keep any guns inactive enough to need a long term storage spray (of course I didn't know this when I ordered it, it only really becomes clear from reading the accompanying instructions. When you need the gun again, treat with a lubricant (they suggest borecote, of course) and you're ready to go--doesn't have to be removed.
I have only used this a couple of times. I treated a Makarov (sorry, guys, a Russian) that I keep in the car with it as it tends to sit in a holster for months at a time in Florida humidity. Initial sprays left a lot of white residue that buffed out with exception of hard-to-reach areas like the cocking serrations (a little borecote on a rag wipes them away). Seems to work--I no longer find little spots where the crappy finish has been replaced by specks of rust. I don't know how often it would/will need to be re-applied.
Borecote is a lubricant/rust preventative. Clean, dissassemble, degrease/oil and spray on all metal surfaces and in the bore (ok, use a patch, but you get the idea). 15 minutes to dry, wipe off any excess, and re-spray. Wait, wipe, reassemble. Protects the finish and lubricates the action. It is even supposed to reduce lead/copper fouling in the bore--I haven't seen any evidence of that, but ...
This stuff is great! You can actually feel the difference on the metal. The one drawback to this stuff is--how do you know when you need more? You can't see it; you can feel the difference between surfaces coated with it and not, but all the surfaces are coated; I don't really know. I reapply it once a month to carry guns and ? to others.
FYI, I have no relation to nor financial interest in the company, but they make a great product and have super customer service. They answer questions normally the same day and are quite knowledgeable. They also shipped my order out the same day it arrived.
Brian, bhiltz@dudley.lib.usf.edu
Bill,
In my opinion, ANY oil will GUM UP if applied too heavily, and allowed to set around and collect dust. You can use breakfree if used sparingly. I can see any oil gumming up if poured into the frame and slide channels of a 1911A1, it is a dirt magnet.
Ron Bloom, TDWJ36A@prodigy.com
FP-10 is an excellent metal treatment lubricant with little or no rust preventative qualities. It is best applied after using a degreaser, and followed by use with a protectant.
For corrosion resistance, I have had excellent results with Birchwood Casey Sheath, Shooters' Choice Rust Prevent, and Outers Metal Seal. I have also used Eezox with great success, and it is the only thing I use on carry guns, as it cannot kill primers like most penetrating lubricants. Even guns worn close to the body (and boy can I sweat) have never even shown the slightest hint of rusting when coated with Eezox. Also, my C&R's, hunting, and target arms all get a good wipe down with either Sheath or Rust Prevent, and I have never had a rust problem at all.
Robert P. Firriolo, LIProgun@yahoo.com
Incidently, a second on Walt's recommendation for Boeshield - great rust preventative, *lousy* lubricant.
I use it to keep the lawnmower from rusting through the winter months.
Regards,
Kirk
Bill,
There is a product that became available in the U.S. in the last couple years that you may find worth considering. It is Ballistol and was developed by the Germany government around 1904 for their military to use to fight the effects of the corrosive ammo being shot. Germany continued using it at least up through WWII. It is a good rust preventative as well as a bore cleaner. You can get more details at their Web site at http://www.ballistol.com or at my Web site. I sell it and offer it at a very decent price. I think the C&R guys are missing a bet if they don't give it a try. The black powder shooters love it because it does a great job cleaning their firearms.
Best regards,
Roger Schmitt, rwschmitt@alliancelink.com
I used to live in Austin Texas, a rust-prone location - hot, humid. Pocket carry of blued items in the summer was IMHO the ultimate test of rust-preventing ability. Where I live now is usually dry so rust is little problem whatever I use.
Principles: All oils and greases oxidize in air; once oxidized they're useless as protectants. Thin oils oxidize fastest; then thicker oils; last, greases oxidize slowest. Really thick greases oxidize the very slowest (e.g., cosmoline is very thick, like wax, sort of).
I found cleaning with WD-40 worked fine (Hoppes for the bore; copper chore boy for leading); still use it. WD-40 _will_ prevent rust for semi-long-term storage IF you keep the air from the item. For example, put the item in a plastic bag, spray it heavily with WD-40 then seal the bag reasonably airproof (no need for fancy seal; twist and/or roll will do).
WD-40 leaves a very thin film which any amount of handling will remove easily. Don't handle the item after spraying on the WD-40. If you keep it in a lined guncase/box spray the liner heavily with WD-40. By actual test of use in Austin, this really works; and it's easy, cheap and convenient.
There are better long-term preservatives but none as convenient; if non-air-proof storage is for over one year plan on renewing the WD-40 yearly (better semi-annually) or use something else. WD-40 won't oxidize but slowly if air is kept from it; it will oxidize fairly quickly if air gets to it (good for 6-12 months in air; I usually figure 6 is safe). Good for years if kept from air.
For use as a lubricant-cleaner spray WD-40 heavily to remove the previous layer of WD-40, which will have "thickened" by then. DON'T use sparingly.
RIG or Outers anti-rust grease works wonders; regular automotive grease works pretty well, too. Apply with a toothbrush, lightly polish off. This will work fine even if the object is exposed to air and not sealed as described above for WD-40; works all that much better if sealed. The big enemy of metal is air oxidizing the lubricant.
In Austin I kept a blued item in my pocket for years. Daily application of WD-40 kept it from rust fine (pockets with salty sweat have got to be a sort of ultimate test). But let it go two days and rust showed up. I took to applying RIG as described above - now weekly application sufficed; ten days was too much between applications of RIG or Outers Brand antirust grease.
I've never put any preservative lube other than WD-40 in the bore nor have I ever regretted same.
For hunting I've used Johnson's Paste Wax with great success for hunting in the rain. Don't buff it - the matte finish of unbuffed wax is great for pseudo-camo. Cops I know use it and like it.
I've used lots of other stuff but still like these basics best; and they're cheapest, too. Good combination.
Lee Liquid Alox is used as a preservative by the machine tool industry per several writers to reload-l; it should be a wonderful very-long-term preservative. If Norman Johnson recommends it it's gotta be good.
Bob Thomas, bob@gazebo.swcp.com
As an aside to this post, I must strongly second the "don't use WD-40" comment. Pls. be advised this formula was originally designed/used by DOD as a corrosion inhibitor. It has no place as a lubricant. Several years ago I read a DOD study which ranked WD-40 on the very bottom of the scale for this application. Personally I have experienced seizure of Aluminum parts when WD-40 was used for lube. There are too many other products available to even consider its use. IMHO
Van, Van.Nicholson@PSS.Boeing.com
Hi Bill. I have been using BreakFree almost exclusively for about 20 years. I keep a light coat in the bores, and on the metal. Rifles are stored in racks in safe,pistols in rugs or "bore stores"(breathable/silicon treated socks). I have lived in several humid areas in the East and the West coast. I have NEVER had a bit of rust or corrosion! I wipe them down 2 times a year only. I have also pulled out guns that have not been fired for over 10 years, and found NO gumming or stickiness. I also find it an excellent light lube, although I prefer a high tech grease for slide rails, bolt lugs, etc. Would you care to share with us the results of the GUN TEST artice? Seems I heard it was non-conclusive, some products better for anti-rust, others for lube, etc. Maybe I'm thinking of another report, and there may not be any one wonder oil.
The Colonel, ColCorelokt@webtv.net
There's a TON of people who hate CLP because they were forced to clean guns with it in the military. I use Breakfree CLP with good results. Be sure and shake it up really really good though. The Sheath stuff would be better if you were putting something away and not planning on using it for years.
Dennis Jenkins, djenkins@walden.mo.net
Bill:
I've been following the lubricant-preservative scene for about 25 years, and applying some of my background in chemistry to this. The area is a mass of conflicting information, personal prejudice masked as informed opinion, and rumors based on a misunderstanding of chemistry and how lubes work.
As new products come out, I buy them or get test samples from the manufacturers. I've come to few conclusions in any final sense - the newest products are very, very good, but some of the old ones (like Rig grease) still hold their own. I've tried most stuff out there on guns, tools, outdoor equipment and fittings - all with the idea of testing under realistic and adverse conditions, albeit informal and usually uncontrolled testing. I've had good luck with, and read good reviews of several products:
The products are basically oils, either natural (vegetable or more commonly, petroleum) or synthetic with the addition of polymer substances similar to Teflon to increase lubrication.. Others like Dri-Slide (a very good lube) use molybdenum disulfide as a super-lube, and it is coming back into favor. probably is a better lube than Teflon, but since it is black like graphite, it is messy. Brownells fine Action-lube grease, which is amazingly effective in critical application such as triggers, is a moly-D based grease.
- The Tetragun line of cleaner, oil and grease has very fine Teflon-type particles in a non-toxic carrier oil or grease - much, much finer particles than in Break Free or similar products. In my experience, it will prevent rust with ordinary care, and work as an very slippery lube. Switching to it from Break Free is sometimes quite noticeable in terms of better lubrication. Also, the grease and oil can be used at low temps. The oil and thin cleaner will act as a solvent as well, cleaning the arm. I'm most confidant of this as a lube, but see no reason not to use it for rust protection.
The cleaner appears simply to be the oil dispersed in very thin solvent carrier - it penetrates quickly, covers large areas, the solvent evaporates and leaves the thicker oil behind. In a sense, the products forma system that will cover all circumstances.
- RemOil is another very good product. The carrier oil is very light, so it penetrates well, and the Teflon particles are very fine. It is my first choice at low temps. Seems to be a good rust preventative, and cleans well. If I had to use only one product for all my gun needs, this would be it. I'd only feel short when it came to very long-term storage.
- Eezox is a lubricant-protective that goes on as a thin liquid and dries to a film. It is what I am now using for rust prevention on any surface that doesn't require a lube (i.e., in the action I use RemOil or Tetragun). Haven't had ANY problems with rust since I started using it a year ago - and the SC climate is tough on guns due to humidity and sweat. This thin dry film seems to be about the best I've found. My feeling at this point is that it will stand up to abuse better than many other protectants. When I come in from the field, i don't feel I have to wipe the guns down right then, even if it has been raining. Seems to be a fair lube as well. Rust just doesn't show up.
- The only thing as good as Eezox is a thin coat of Rig gun grease - but it has to be renewed on handling, unlike Eezox. It will work very well, however, and is the only choice for long-term storage. The trick is to wrap the arm in wax paper - leaving it open enough for ventilation) to keep the grease from being absorbed from the metal surface. I've had guns in storage for 11+ years like this.
-Ballistol is an German product that has been around since the last century. It is a non-toxic mix of vegetable oils (in fact it is approved as a skin wound antiseptic in Germany and was developed to have this capability) that can be used on metal, leather, wood and plastic. It cleans, removes fouling, helps lift rust, and protects fairly well from rust. It is a good lubricating oil as will and seems to be as they claim, non-gumming over time. Ballistol is new to the US but not to much of the rest of the world. I've used it and like it. Need more time evaluate it.
BTW, it is entirely possible that a product could be this good - sperm whale oil was, but isn't currently available. This could be changing. At one time, this oil was the choice for fine lubricants, and in fact was the oil base for the original (pre-WWII) automatic transmission oil. Jojoba plant oil is very similar but has never caught on. Both Sperm whale oil and Jojoba are non-gumming, prevent rusting, and are good oils for demanding applications like lubrication of instruments (and guns)..
You might look at the products in the Brownells catalog - if they carry it, I feel that is a recommendation in itself. If product doesn't live up to its promises, they will drop it, period. So the catalog is a good indication of which products need to be considered. Several new products they have that I haven't evaluated yet but which seem promising from reports are Boeshield ( a wax-based product) and Corrosion-X (which seems to be excellent against rust and a good non-fouling lubricant).
People who shoot black powder may want to avoid petroleum-based lubes, as their is some evidence that they combine with the bp firing residue to make a tar-like fouling that is difficult to remove. These folks might want to use one of the non-petroleum products (based on vegetable or animal fats) developed for bp arms, or Ballistol.
As this FAQ develops, I'd be happy to review it, and help any way I can.
Hope this helps - the FAQ is certainly needed.
Brian, bmooney@scescape.net
Please email me with any other thoughts or ideas
and I will post them here.
